Posted by: ihlos | March 19, 2009

Stampede sidesteps settling down

 News from the ptr on MMO champion, and now wowhead, is that blizzard can’t seem to make up their mind about rhinos. Apparently they just didn’t like the knockback. First they reduce it to one target, which took all the fun out of it, and now the knockback is gone completely. Perhaps it was the idea all along to make the knockback lame first so we wouldn’t mind when it was completely removed. I say this because *it* seems to have worked on me.


Knockback on just one mob isnt that great when you can’t really aim your pet, and thus control the direction of your flying foe. Sure you can use EotB, but thats not always practical. So now in place of the knockback we have “25% increased damage from bleeds for 12 seconds” – 1 min cooldown. Of course, everyone’s first reaction is…high cooldown….low uptime. My second thought is “wait, do I even have a bleed?” It seems this is meant as a buff to other players, having usefulness in pvp and pve.

The problem is the 12 out of 60 seconds its up. Bleeds being damage over time, id rather have 13% damage over 24 seconds or even 5% over 60 seconds. For pve, there is another issue. Most players won’t bring a tenacity pet for dps, so the utility has to outweigh the dps loss compared to a ferocity pet. Well, this isnt really utility, its a straight damage buff, so the gained dps needs to make up for the loss. Its hard to do the math, since you don’t know class makeup in advance. It may make more sense in a 25 man raid, where there would, on average, be more classes to take advantage of the buff.

From a tanking perspective, I don’t know what to make of this ability. My guess is that they will end up lowering the cooldown. Still though, the move is interesting. Your pet won’t get any threat from the damage bonus, most likely, so there is only a little bit of threat, and no survivability buff, unless you count the boss/mob dying quicker 🙂

So the only real benefit would be increased dps from the group, which would only be desireable if you were more than capable of handling the instance, in terms of threat and survivablility.

I think we will need to figure out how bleeds tick and when damage is calculated to fully understand the value of this skill.

I can’t see this one being all that great for tanking, but I would like to hear all your thoughts on this change, especially if you are still planning to use the skill.



  1. I can’t imagine them making changes that are meant primarily to encourage hunters to take rhinos into raids. I like rhinos, but they are just so … massive!

  2. I can’t imagine it either, but depending on how the talent goes live, I could see the benefit if you had a lot of bleed dps. I’ll have to look at some meters and see how much dps we are talking about.

    On another note, you wouldnt have happened to test the stam scaling on the new tenacity talent, would you? I’m curious to know if its 40% of our current scaling (45%) which would be 18% more, or if its added to the scaling, which would be 85%.

  3. Unfortunately I haven’t done much pet testing on the PTR this week. I’m spending 3 hours a day on the Arena Tournament realm in penance for my bloody murloc, and another 2-3 hours on the Argent Tournament on the PTR working out strategies to get the mounts in less than a year.

  4. No worries, i guess you found a tertiary amiable failer 🙂

  5. This… killed rhinos. We don’t have bleeds, it isn’t up enough to make other bleeds really benefit from it, and the cooldown is way to long.

    Make it cause a bleed affect, or a stun, or BOTH. Then you have my interest in them again.

  6. Surely if a real life rhino was to stampede at you, it would know you back?
    Ok it’d probably kill you, but still…
    seems all a bit silly to me, they will probably change it all again in a few days anyway.

  7. So… what will you name your site now that rhinos become useless? =P (no offense to mr Otha Rhino sir)

  8. Should be Big Red Turtle, Croc, or Bear… (again no offense intended)

  9. Well, I still love my rhino, although frankly, even with the knockback, he was never the *best* at tanking. I named the site after the rhino because at the time tenacity wasnt even live as a tree, and the rhino was the first exotic tenacity pet. At the time I had no idea how powerful gorillas would become 🙂 and the bestial wrathed size rhino could block the ‘inner’ gates of stormwind.

    I don’t think I’ll change it for no reason other than the hassle and the inevitable loss of readership/broken links. Its just a name after all.

    On a serious note though, lets not count the rhino out just yet. They may morph this talent a bit to make it extremely desirable. They have, quite uncharacteristically, been really good to pets. I really believe that the new leadership over there is dedicated to making the majority of pets viable. I still have hope for my rhino.

    Ohta appreciates the attention though, he’s had a rough go of it the last couple patches 🙂

  10. Well on the plus side it seems that people are reporting on the ptr that focused aim is now applying to their pets, so i guess that can be considered a buff.

  11. Oh yeah and i really dont think they are done with the stampede talent. Replacing a knockback ability (which is the whole reason it had a cooldown so long) with a weak secondary bleed buff doesn’t seem right. I think we’ll see a reduction in cooldown of this talent before all is said and done.

  12. I think a nice aoe stun would be fun, and it wouldnt have alot of the technical and balance issues of a knockback. Basically just like the tauren racial, but maybe with a bit bigger range.

  13. Clearly, we’re intended to use Stampede, then use our new pet-switch ability to pull a cat out of our stable for a buffed Rake.

  14. After discussing this a bit with rogues it becomes clear that this ability will not likely stack with a feral druid’s mangle, which is 30%, and as far as i can tell can be up 100% of the time.

    So unless you have a ton of rogues/warriors and no feral druids, this probably won’t work out. Further testing needed to verify though.

    And of course we saw what they did to wolves since the buff didnt stack, they moved it to hunter only. Well hunter only wont do us any good so what on earth are they gonna do with this one?

  15. ihlos, if that’s the case, I can’t see why rhino’s then wouldn’t have a 100% uptime as well if it’s basically the same ability.

    I find it strange that rhino’s of all pets would get a bleed buff. It just doesn’t fit the design. I can see it on crabs, cats or bears, but not rhinos.

    Unless of course the internal bleeding from getting stomped causes your wounds to increase their bleeding ^^

  16. HEY, aren’t they changing Piercing Shots to cause your target to BLEED for 10% of the damage dealt?

    BUT WAIT- That’s DEEP in MM territory!

    GG Blizz. Way to regulate Rhinos to situational raid support. /sigh

  17. This is so crap, I started a Hunter mainly for the Pets and I really wanted a Rhino for looks and this ability to knock things back and keep them at a range but now I might just scrap my hunter and go with a Rogue unless you think they’ll put the Knockback back?

    Anyone think they might?

  18. not likely, but possible. Its ok for boomkins to knock me off cliffs and death knights to pull me off cliffs, but a pet that might-knock-you-off-a-cliff-if-the-hunter-can-manage-to-get-the-angle-right is completely overpowered.

  19. Well thats stupid on behalf of Blizzard.. I’m not a WoW pro by any means but do Beast Mastery Hunters even have any Bleed Effects? Why give us something that we can’t even use. After all Hunters are already a soloing class cuz they are borderline useless in PvP compared to other classes I’ve read…

    Why Blizzard, WHY?

    Just add it back and increase the cooldown to 2 minutes or something higher so it can’t be spammed and all the melee classes can stop their whining.

  20. Seriously Blizzard you have made some changes ive been pissed off about but I am pretty sure this was the stupidest one…. seriously a pet that had great BG/ PVP potential and just take it away for a crappy bleed ability seriously of all the abilities u couldnt have given a more pussy replacement. Well all we can hope for is that they put their heads together and replace it with another knockback spell that they are just modifying or just give it back to us its not like we can spam it with a 1 min. cooldown. I didn’t think blizzard chose favorites but now i think they do cuz I think they are now trying to draw people away from this class and make them pissed off as I am about this change they better fix it in the next patch or something. Anyways thats what i gotta say about this matter. Im gonna make a forum on Hunter class about this change feel free to come and post ur negatives about the latest patch on my thread the name is “Kidoumaru”

    P.S. I just want to say for the record I don’t know why they gimped a awesome pet like this to nothing and making people want to respec but if its just cause some stupid melee classes whining on their forums thats ridiculous.

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