Posted by: ihlos | March 23, 2009

Stampede is at it again!

And you thought it was over! Well, actually, probably no one thought it was over. I thought id check the ptr wowhead site to see if stampede is still morphing, and my suspicion was confirmed.

stampede-1-min

They reduced the damage, and changed the uptime to 100%, without reducing the effect.

So now the only question is stacking with the druid ability. On this note I decided to do a little extra searching. Under every spell in wowhead is a collection of technical data about the spell. Under this spell, it has the debuff ID number for the bleed: Aura #255, with a value of 25.

Guess what other debuff has the same ID? Yes, thats right, Mangle. And it has a value of 30. So our chances of stacking with mangle are slim at best. So the only time this will likely be worth it is if you have a ton of warriors and rogues but no feral druid. Whether or not it would be valuable or not even in this situation warrants more research.

I will say this though, at least they got the cooldown fixed, and done right.

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Responses

  1. … but it’s still kinda not that useful.

    With the homogenization of pet stats looming ahead, I can see maybe a few tenacity pets being used in PvE for utility purposes, and seeing as they will actually be able to do damage, this is a good thing.

    But this? It isn’t really stellar, and it has a problem with being too… narrow.

  2. Yeah, I don’t really understand it. The wolf’s ap buff is being changed because it doesnt make sense, given how many ap buffs there are out there.

    But then this is going the opposite way. I guess the idea is that too much competition will lend it useless, but if it only competes with one other buff it can stay. Much like the worm’s move i guess?

    I dunno, but I like this version way better than the last one, and I desperately want my rhino to be useful 🙂

  3. It would be interesting to see how much this would give rogues/warriors in terms of dps and compare it with the dps you lose for having a tenacity pet instead of ferocity. And also how many rogues/warriors you’d need to fill the gap.

    That way, if there’s a 25 man raid with lots of melee, but not a single feral druid. It may be viable =P

  4. Warriors and Rogues and Marksmanship Hunters.

    We get a pretty potent bleed in 3.1 ourselves 😛

  5. Yeah thats my idea, take a hypothetcial 25 man and calculate how many of x classes it would take to be worth it. For this we need to see how much of each classes total dps is bleeds, so we can assign a generic dps increase to each one, and then assess the gap on a raid by raid basis. I just need to parse my next 25 man (hopefully there will be one of each bleed class dps specced.)

    The other thing to consider is what spec they are. Bleed percentages will vary wildly depending on talents. A warrior, for instance, without deep wounds will do significantly less bleed dps than one with deep wounds.

    Well, its not too often that I run into a MM hunter in a raid, if any MM hunters out there could tell me what 30% of aimed, steady, and chimaera shot is to your total dps id be obliged.

  6. MM will be more powerful next patch I believe. So it will be hard to calc before it launches, unless you find values from the PTR.

  7. Well the best that we have as far as an early estimation for the DPS contribution of the bleed is that for a well geared hunter with most of there buffs in a raid setting would have the bleed at producting ~250 DPS. This number was found from shandara’s spreadsheet.

  8. Yeah, and I took a gander at a dps warrior in last nights raid, with deep wounds doing 15% of his damage.

    So heres where we stand.

    Rogues claim that bleeds arent much of their dps, even though they do include them.

    Warriors specced into deep wounds are our best bet, This will mostly be dps warriors but from what I read on the tankingtips blog it can also make sense in a tanking spec too.

    MM hunters will probably sit somewhere around or above rogues.

    Druids have significant bleeds, but if they are in the party, your rhino is useless.

    So the result is, if you have alot of the right classes, *and they do decent dps*, you could get a very good benefit from bringing the rhino over a ferocity pet. In the event of a feral-druid-less 25 man, i think it would often pan out.

    Consider the deep wounds warrior. Deep wounds causes bleed damage on critical strikes, a percentage of your weapon dps. If a warrior does 2.5k dps, and 15% or so is deep wounds, then he/she is doing 375 bleed dps, which would be increased by stampede by 93 dps. Thats certainly nothing to shake a stick at!

    Now these are very rough numbers mind you. Im fairly certain there was no feral druid, but I can’t be sure. Also, crits can vary alot from night to night. But it does demonstrate the fact that the numbers are there to make stampede work, given the right conditions.

  9. You know… I bet we are the only dps class that is actually discussing lowering our dps to buff another dps class 😉

  10. Yeah, that may be. I think there will always be people who put the group first, but it does seem that hunters are the most eager to cut personal dps for the overall good.

    I think the type that is drawn to the hunter class is the type to like utility, and blizzard would do well to boost our utility.

    I think that most notable here is the amount of dps we are talking about. Most classes would sacrifice some personal dps for the overall good, but we are discussing slashing a considerable amount of our own dps, for what may turn out to be a fairly small group gain.

  11. In the patchnotes:

    “Stampede (rhino) only affects 1 target, but adds a 25% bleed damage debuff (that does not stack with Mangle etc.) in addition to its knockback.”

    Seems like it will keep its single target knockback =)

  12. woot! Does anyone know if stampede’s knockback works on bosses?


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